MGTOW

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MGTOW

fschmidt
Administrator
Once upon a time there was no reason for men to go their own way.  A good man who followed the way of society could count on having a stable job and a stable wife.  Then liberalism and feminism changed all that.  Now society is thoroughly rotten and good men who follow the way of society will only be exploited and abused.  So men began going their own way, no longer following the way of society.

But this introduces the question, if men should not follow the way of society, which way should they go?  The MGTOW view is that each man should decide this for himself.  This is fine, but difficult.  It is hard for each man to have to figure everything out for himself without the benefit of the advice of others.  So a discussion of different paths has value, not to force one path on any man, but rather to give insight into the options.

The first question is what do men owe society?  My answer is that men owe absolutely nothing to society because society has become worthless.  If men owe nothing to society, then what moral boundaries should men follow?  My answer is that men should do nothing that may harm good individuals, but that there is no reason not to harm societal institutions like the government or large corporations.

Now we can look at which paths make sense.  I can only see two paths depending on the following question:  Do you feel a connection to something greater than just yourself?  For the religious, the answer is clearly yes.  I am not religious, but I feel a connection to several things beyond myself.  I feel a connection to my family.  I feel a connection to people who I believe are similar to me.  And I feel a connection to those times and places in history that had the values that I value.

If you feel no connection to something greater than just yourself, then the logical path for you is hedonism.  Once you understand that you are free of moral obligations to society, then you can study PUA for sex.  You can steal, legally or illegally, to acquire wealth.  You can travel and exploit each culture for your own benefit.  While this isn't my choice, I do respect this approach for its consistency.

If you do feel a connection to something greater than just yourself, then you should cooperate with other like-minded men to promote whatever it is that you feel a connection to.  If you a religious, you should dedicate yourself to your religion.  If you value family, you should figure out how best to protect your family from the horrors of modern culture.  But no matter what you value, you will not be able to achieve much as an isolated individual.  To support a religion, to protect your family, or to support any other value contrary to mainstream culture, you must find a way to work with other men.

A third path is to passively go with the flow.  This is the path of laziness.  The only benefit of this path is that it doesn't require effort.  But what kind of life does it get you?  Neither the physical pleasures of hedonism nor the spiritual and social benefits of cooperation.  You are like piece of driftwood in a storm being tossed to wherever society throws you.  Society is still wealthy, so you can pass your life playing video games and browsing the web.  But this wealth will disappear soon, and most will struggle for survival.  Then even this path will require effort.

I think these three paths cover all options.  Am I missing anything?  Of these three options, it seems that the "go with the flow" option is most popular, followed by hedonism, with cooperation being a distant third.  What does this say about men today?  To me, it says that men today are motivated first by laziness, second by selfishness, and only very few by anything else.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
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Re: MGTOW

Drealm
Laziness is cheap and easy.

Hedonism is affordable and moderately difficult.

Civilization building is expensive and fragile.

What you're missing is a fourth option, the possibility of failure. You can't fail at being lazy or a hedonist. You can fail at building civilization (having a wife and children). If you fail at having a wife or children, then you'll be divorced. Divorce will leave you with children so you can't be lazy and a lack of money to be a hedonist. Right now I'm lazy.
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Re: MGTOW

fschmidt
Administrator
No one chooses failure, so I didn't list that as a path to choose.

Yes you can fail at being lazy or a hedonist.  Many incels would like to be hedonists but just fail at it.  To be a successful hedonist requires effort, independence, and focus.  To see failed laziness, visit a poor country.  Poor countries are full of failed lazy people who end up having to struggle to survive.  America is still rich, so being lazy in America is still fairly easy, but that will change.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
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Re: MGTOW

Drealm
fschmidt wrote
 Poor countries are full of failed lazy people who end up having to struggle to survive.  America is still rich, so being lazy in America is still fairly easy, but that will change.
And this is why people prefer laziness or hedonism over marriage and children. The payoff is less but the consequences for failure are less also (at least for the time being).
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Re: MGTOW

Ardia
I'm just going to say I'm lazy. Or a lazy failed hedonist maybe.

About the family thing. Do people, especially men, choose to start families? Or is it something that just happens after you've been with a woman for some time? I get the impression its more of the latter mixed with a horror of growing old alone.
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Re: MGTOW

Ardia
In reply to this post by fschmidt
fschmidt wrote
  My answer is that men should do nothing that may harm good individuals, but that there is no reason not to harm societal institutions like the government or large corporations.
I dunno, 'good' is such a sliding scale. I have no base to work from.